HPV Vaccine

I am opening this discussion as a break off from the thread "Success Stories for Women over 40???"

The subject of HPV came up as there are several women dealing with not only HSV but HPV as well. The discussion turned to the HPV vaccine. Nearly all of the women on this site are beyond the age recommendation for HPV vaccination, but we have daughters so this is important.

My daughter's pediatrician recommended the HPV vaccine, I declined. I had heard about the deaths from the vaccine. The pediatrician was completely unaware of any deaths due to the vaccine. Although death is a rare occurrence, it has happened. "One Less!"

My advice is before you consider having your daughter vaccinated for HPV please research for yourself.

There is a big difference in the information provided by Merck. Check out the patient information, side effects include swelling, fatigue, blah, blah, blah... Then check out the prescribing information (for the doctor) post marketing experience - chronic pain, seizures, autoimmune disorders, neurologic disorders, primary ovarian failure, nervous system disorders, and under General Disorders: DEATH! Don't know about you but for me "One Less" doesn't quite do it for me when I consider the possible impact that one of these conditions could have on my daughter's life. Especially considering that if she has her PAP yearly, as she should, HPV is very treatable. I actually know a girl that developed multiple sclerosis following her HPV vaccinations. The CDC says the benefits outweigh the risk! I don't think so!!

There are currently many class action lawsuits against Merck for Gardasil Vaccine injuries. A recent lawsuit awarded 6 million in damages. Many countries have discontinued offering the Gardasil Vaccine and are now pursuing criminal lawsuits against Merck. Lawsuits have already been filed by Japan, Columbia, Spain, France and India.

I watched an interview of an executive from a pharmaceutical company, he said they make so much money they don't really care about possible litigation. In the long run they still come out far ahead of any liability. Yep - "One Less" and they don't really care!!

I recommend teaching your daughter about the importance of annual PAPs once she has become sexually active, as well as monthly breast self examination. HPV is very treatable when watched and caught early.

Thank you for this thread. My daughter’s doc was so adamant about her getting the vaccine at 12 or 13 when she hadn’t even started having sex yet. I thought it was odd so declined every time. She will be 21 this year and had her pap last year. All was normal but I think the doc asked if she had the vaccine again and she told them she hadn’t and didn’t want it. She’s old enough to go to her appts by herself so I still didn’t think much of it.

I saw a woman post a video of her young daughter after receiving the vaccine and was horrified. The poor girl was acting like she had been drinking! She couldn’t hold her head up and was making noises and drooling. That’s scary!!

I still question all these vaccines they try and push down our throats for things we never had to worry about when we growing up. Now they want to vaccinate the young boys with it. Smh

You made a good decision- I think our daughters need to know the facts. If they make the choice to have the vaccine at least we have not caused undue injury to a healthy young girl. The most important thing is that they know their body and are doing self checks and a yearly gynecology examination. Skin checks are very important too. Many young girls develope skin cancer.

I have HPV and I have high Risk HPV and I have cervical cancerous issues due to it. If you read the stats on how many carry it and that men cannot be tested and spread it the most, it's worth a thought.

I don't know any children that have had issues - but I'm adult that has huge issues with it, so, yes, one less death maybe... or just later they die. Just depends on the disease and how opportunistic one's body is.

HSV2 actually acts a passage way for HPV to infect cells as most bodies can fight off HPV before it causes any damage. HPV is not as opportunistic a f'k as HSV2 is when it comes to weakened immune systems (sickness or flu or otherwise) - but if given the right combo - HPV will rise and attack and most won't even know as it's pretty asymptomatic. They say it takes up to 10 years typically - for it to manifest in cancer. Vaginal, Anal, Cervix, Penile, Throat

All lovely and sadly, because it is so new on the radar, folks are just starting to realize the connection between the cancers and HPV.

So, folks get sick or die from it now or sick and die from it later. Considering how HPV has affected my life? I'm all for vaccine and I don't even have the HPV 16 or 18 that the vaccine covers... just another High Risk version that took less than 2 years to infect my cervical cells.

So - it's a crap shoot, but one I'd risk and glad my nieces and nephews also felt the same.

One of the problematic aspects of throat cancer caused by HPV is that it's very hard to screen for, like if it's in the tonsillar crypts which can't easily be swabbed. For that reason, many with throat cancer aren't identified until the cancer is in later stages. While cervical cancer is the largest issue for women, throat cancer is more common among men than women, so vaccinating boys is not only beneficial in limiting spread of various strains of HPV, it's also meant to protect boys/men against various cancers, including throat cancer caused certain HPV strains.

I will also add that it is typically gay men who get HPV anal cancer which is the only way they have tested men in the past, anal swab.

The stigma historically is that HPV and cervical Cancers was a Loose Woman's Disease and now it's being recognized as a disease that up to 80% adults will have and soon more... or less if vaccinated.

The bigger issue as Optimist pointed out is that they are just starting to realize how much cancer is caused by HPV so why would I not want my child protected as you Know how high the risk is of getting it - as they will never know until it rears up and so far, Men will never know - just keep spreading.

I'd risk a vaccination over cancer options any day... not to mention the medical costs and pain and suffering to all when it happens. HPV is not just a virus, it can kill and will rise up if given opportunity to do so, a silent killer if not caught in time and no other complicating factors arise.

https://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv.htm

Sunset - so sorry, I know you have HPV and it has caused many problems for you. I am sorry and I am sure this is a long road for recovery for you.

My intention with this discussion is to shed light on the side effects and growing controversy surrounding the HPV vaccine. As the vaccine is only effective for 5-6 years I feel the benefits do not outweigh the possible side effects. My intention was that everyone review for themselves, discuss and decide if the Gardasil Vaccine is right for their child.

When you consider the fact that the vaccine will only provide protection for 5-6 years, would you give up your child to MS for life for 5/6 years of protection from HSV, would you give up the ability for your children to have children for 5/6 years of protection from HSV?

When counties around the world have said this vaccine is the devil - they are filing criminal lawsuits- what do you know that they don't? Seriously, we are the best advocate for our children's health care! Please research before you vaccinate!

Look at the facts!! To me it is criminal that the information provided to the physician includes all of the possible side effects (including death!!, autoimmune disorders, seizures, WTF are you kidding me???!!!) but in patient information it only says possible side effects, blah blah blah, redness at injection site!! Unconscionable!!

This is the most horrific example of pharmaceutical bureaucracy I have known in my life time! This is bigger than the Vioxx scandal!!

Sunset - please help me, trying to advise my daughter. I know you are possitive for HPV. Did you have annual screening?? Have you had pre-cancerous cells before?? . I am dealing from a point of HSV. So with HPV do you disclose to potential partners?? Did you tel your children? What Is considered standard protocol??

This is an issue with all vaccines. For every vaccine that exists, there are people who prefer to take the risk of being infected and transmitting the virus rather than risk any side effects from the vaccine.

As for the specifics of the HPV vaccine and related side effects, the Snopes site does a pretty good job of assessing the info for those who are interested.

@PresentMoment You mentioned in another thread that you are concerned about spreading your HSV2 through receiving oral sex. With that in mind, you may be interested to know that one major benefit of the HPV vaccine is that it can potentially prevent unvaccinated men (and women, though less often) from contracting HPV through performing oral sex. A small number of these HPV throat infections lead to cancer (just like with the cervical infections) which is typically not recognized until it is quite advanced (unlike cervical cancer). Annual paps do not check for evidence of the HPV virus, they check for cervical cell changes that can occur as a result of the HPV virus. This can take months or years after infection to occur. During that time, the virus can be spread to others.

As with HSV, HPV is very common and usually not harmful to people. However, again like HSV, a minority of people have more significant symptoms/outcomes, in this case cancer. The HPV vaccine is not mandatory and it's your right and your daughter's right to choose not to get vaccinated. It's recommended for boys and girls 11 and 12 years of age because it is of maximum benefit when given before people become sexually active. Research indicates most women contract at least one strain of HPV within two years of becoming sexually active.

@PresentMoment As for what happened in Japan, here's my understanding...

A large increase in vaccinations occurred when the vaccine was given to patients at no cost (previously there was an associated cost) and it was proactively recommended. Following reports of adverse effects, which may or may not have been related to the vaccine, the proactive recommendation was suspended while adverse events were researched and the vaccination rates dropped from >70% to close to zero. Less than a year later, the outcome of research indicated the adverse events could not be proven to be related to the vaccine, but the proactive recommendation was not reinstated. As a result, vaccine rates remain very low in Japan.

All good information to know!! Thank you!

PresentMoment (my long winded answer:) - vaccines have been around forever and proven to be effective and safe and beneficial. There will always be folks who don't support or believe in them. I to this day have never had the flu shot. I don't see the point. This year, I got sick... but on such a low grade level compared to everyone else it was rather shocking. They all had the flu shot, I did not. However, not to say the shot was why I fared better - I just do and did.

Last year I got pneumonia and I never have lung issues with colds / flu. Never. So this year I started the pneumonia vaccine - I'll take my chances and not take the powerful drugs and down time pneumonia creates. It's a trade off and possible risk I am more than willing to take.

Last year I also got my tetanus shot (been over 25 years and avoided due to the ache it creates! )

Last year I proactively got a shingles vaccine. Shingles is a herpes virus. After finding out I had HSV2 while still testing negative for it over a period of many months - plus my evil and lethal liver diagnosis of PSC - my stress levels went through the roof and shingles I plan to avoid if at all possible. Get my immune system On Board while it's still strong. But that's me.

As for the HPV vaccine - I would in a moment recommend my child under 18 get it if she or he plans to be sexually active. It's all about education and awareness. By 15-16 I'd be making time to read up STD's of all kinds. Prevention included. Sex is gonna happen and non safe sex is gonna happen.

The other option is let them decide at age 18 - by then they will be very educated to the risks, pros and cons of all STD's. That's all we can do as parents. I would not feel the need to disclose my HPV or H to my child. I would most likely do so if they contracted the same.

Our society is so uptight about sex that we can't even teach safe sex - therein lies the issue. So, it starts with parents doing so in a very open, blunt and Real Life way. STD's are not the end of the world, but they can sure make life tough - mentally and physically and medically.

Here is a great article updated 1/2017 by the CDC for sexually transmitted diseases. It contradicts what some have written - so it's really up to you to decide what's in the best interest for you children. And by 18, we can only hope children are taught that they have their own voice and are welcome to make their own decisions - part of learning to become a responsible adult... but in the meantime, educate educate educate!

Annual Screening: Yes - they do it easily during a pap smear. I had to ask for it, insist on it as I was seeing the same guy. Never let a doc tell you what you do or don't need, if you want to be tested, Do It. It's your body and Your Peace of Mind

Precancerous Cells before: No, not even when I first tested positive for HPV in fall 2016

Precancerous Cells happened in fall 2017 - but they were able to remove them all (biopsy and LEEP procedures) and I will test again in June, 6 months later to confirm.

Disclosure: I do. My doc didn't think I needed to as everyone has it. But I know that if I was with a woman who had it, I'd want to know! However few docs and others think it's necessary to disclose. I mean, let's be real, Men can't be tested so giving head is a risk thus it's like, why should I disclose if men will never know if spreading it? It's a Man's World and part of me is like, if so, I'll play and not disclose either. But, I have a conscience.

https://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv-vaccine-young-women.htm

I will also add - my HPV high risk is not the 16 & 18 the vaccine covers and I still had HSIL, cervical dysplasia. The article is clear it does not cover all types.

Mine also came on very fast. So in my mind the vaccine isn't covering possibly another HPV high risk culprit. But, all in due time as it continues to be researched as it's all so very new, not really, but from a point where it's worth trying to prevent, yes.

Drug companies will always win the $$ battle - it is such with ALL drugs. We do not live in a society that functions on what's best for the whole. But it's been as such forever and not a reason to not vaccinate if You feel it is in yours or your child's best interest.

Freedom of Choice

Thank you so much - I know my question was very personal- I really appreciate your response. I hope I have not come off as difficult or unsympathetic to what you have been experiencing. You are undoubtedly a very beneficial contributor to this support group!! A very strong lady!! So sorry, I am a very direct person. Didn't mean to underrate what you have been through. You are strong and obviously a survivor!! Sincerely Sending you love and Wishing you all the best!

I can also relate and should have been more sympathetic- 5 years ago I found a strange growth on my back. Woke my daughter up to take a picture. I think I literally found it the day it popped up. I contacted my DR that day. The nurse practitioner called it an atypical mole - and didn't recommended removal, I insisted!! Biopsy- Lentigo Maligna

Thanks for all of the information on HPV. I didn’t want my daughter vaccinated at such a young age (12-13) because it just didn’t make sense especially if she wasn’t having sex. She’s 20 now so can she get the vaccine now or is it too late?

For what it’s worth, I tested positive for a high risk type at age 30, and cursed myself for not getting the vaccine (lost my virginity at age 25, so was almost to the end of insurance covering it.

But after having discussions with my Gyno (she’s awesome), we discussed how the new gardasil protects against 9 TYPES of hpv. Sure I had one type already, but why risk getting more?? the shots protect against 90% of warts and almost all of the most common cancer types.

I got the shots, I had to pay out of pocket for them -$1k total. It’s worth it to me, I think it’s wortj it to anyone if you asked “cancer or shots”. Also, the sheer mindfuck that would be even benign warts isn’t worth the anxiety and awfulness.

If you’re under 26, insurance covers it. Get the vaccine, protect yourself.

I stayed home today as I have a black eye from a bad fall Monday. Think that has been part of my crazy behavior the last couple of days. Definitely not feeling like a sexy lady today!!!

Anyway- Lentigo Maligna is a Melanoma in-situ. The PA at the dermatologist office did not want to biopsy, I insisted. Good thing I did!! I caught mine very early. With that I still ended up with a 4" scar on my back. They took out a football shaped excision. Catching the growth early and with the excision 100% I will never have a problem from that growth. The first year I had skin checks every 3 months, 6 months for the next 4 years. I am 5 years out from Melanoma so I just have annual skin checks. Mine was on my back but ladies get a mirror out and keep an eye on your lady parts. We can get Melanoma on our lady parts too!! Mine had no black- very red with melanocytes- little brown dots.

Also women of color, Melanoma shows up in the nail bed. If you see a dark line in a length wise direction, you need to have it checked. Bob Marley died from Melanoma.

Melanoma has been my soap box for 5 years, sadly it has changed to HSV!

But be aware, keep an eye on your skin, the "ugly ducking" is the rule I go by. If it looks weird, and you don't have another growth that look similar, it's probably not okay!! I take pictures of growths all of the time. Then I watch for changes. So far all good!!

Hope to provide awareness. Melanoma can happen at any age!!

PresentMoment - I did not find you insensitive at all. However I do appreciate you saying something if it felt off to you. Life is what it is and mine just happens to be what it is now - onward.... once I figure out what that means :)

Follow your heart on what's best, it's all we can do even when we screw it up! lol no pun intended....

Sunset- Thank You!!