To criminally charge or not

[OregonH]

I know this topic has been brought up before, and will probably continue to be, but I need a little advice or input. So this past summer I started dating who I thought was this wonderful, smart active fun woman. When we entered the bedroom we had the talk a lot of adults do, as to if we’d been tested and if we were clean. She said she was clean and had been tested as was I. Fast forward 4 months, after a lovely vacation to th coast she comes up to me and tells me she just found out she has herpes. Just got results back from a rash on her butt and she had had no idea. I’m a pretty forgiving and understanding person and I told her that I knew these things could lay dormant and unfortunately this can happen. I am understanding and tell her I should find out if I have it and that we should do some research about how to carry on our intimacy.

 

Three days later, she doesn’t talk to me for two days which is unusual, then she stops by my house with a letter, tells me to read it and that if I want to talk to her afterwards, then she’ll be in the car. The letter boils down to that she’s known she’s had Genital herpes for 2 years. She lied to me straight faced when he had the talk, and she was the one who instigated forgoing protection eventually knowing what she carried. (By the way it’s worth noting that she wasn’t on any sort of antiviral/suppressive therapy). I read it, digested it and told her I to work through this and forgive her. I mean shit, I loved this girl. A month later, she leaves me at my door step telling me she can’t stay in the relationship and moves back to Jackson. 10 hour drive away.

 

I’ve spoken to friends, other folks, a buddies girlfriend is the assistant district attorney in the neighboring county. Some say, oh yeah press charges, some say I should file a lawsuit some say let it go. The assistant DA said I could have her charged with class three assault. Minimum sentence is 5 years, plus being a felon for ten years, and possibly labeled as a sex offender. I don’t want money. I would like the punishment to fit the crime. What I am sick of is hearing people say man that sucks, life’s not fair, it sucks. Or yeah she’ll carry the weight of this for the rest of her life. Unfortunately I’ve had some health complications from contracting herpes, plus it will affect my job. Her guilt doesn’t seem enough, I don’t think she carries much of it as she says I apologized what more do you want?. She committed a crime, if you carry this virus it is your responsibility as a descent human to tell someone you are seeing before becoming intimate regardless of how scary it is. Plain and simple. I don’t want to harm the stigma that surrounds herpes, but society needs to know, if you carry an incurable virus, you have to disclose it to sexual partners. That is why I’m thinking of pressing charges. Also, I have overwhelming proof.

 

Thoughts?

[optimist]

I think one thing to keep in mind is that about 80% of adults have HSV. Most don't know it and have never been tested for it as symptoms are often mild or absent and it is typically not included in standard STI panels. It sounds like you were unusual in that you were testing regularly for HSV1 and HSV2 and tested negative for both prior to entering a relationship with this woman. She was also unusual in that she was aware of her HSV+ status. If any of that is incorrect, please correct me.

 

It may also help to understand that people who are diagnosed with HSV are not given standard instructions, and they are often given mixed messages about how to proceed. Some are told disclosure is not necessary, some are told the test results are unreliable and should be disregarded, some are told to simply avoid kissing/oral sex/intercourse (depending on location of infection) during outbreaks, some are told they are only contagious when symptoms are present, some are discouraged from taking antivirals, some are told just to use condoms, some are told nothing at all.

 

As humans, we carry many lifelong viruses, typically including at least four herpes viruses, but genital herpes (of either type) seems to carry a unique stigma. This is evident when people react differently to oral HSV1 and genital HSV1 which is the exact same virus, just in different locations.

 

I don't know who I contracted HSV from or when. I found out later through testing. So there was nobody for me to feel betrayed by, except the doctor who included HSV testing in my STI panel without better setting my expectations about potential outcomes. And I did feel angry at him because my anger had to go somewhere. I still feel angry about it sometimes. But when I really examine why I'm angry, it's because I'm angry at the stigma, not the doctor. This helps me put my anger in perspective. It also helped me to think about how much I would have missed out on had I made the choice to prioritize remaining HSV-free. I wouldn't go back in time and eliminate 80% of my partners who statistically had HSV, I wouldn't go back and use dental dams and condoms for oral sex, I wouldn't have waited three months and done partner testing with each new partner before kissing or having even protected sex, so I guess I valued a certain about of sexual and romantic freedom over keeping myself free of HSV. And I ended up HSV1-, HSV2+ as a result.

 

I do understand why you are angry and why you feel betrayed. I don't mean to minimize what happened here. But you asked for thoughts and those are my thoughts. If you feel very strongly that people with herpes should be required to inform partners, it's a much larger issue than asking the minority who have been diagnosed to adhere to this. The majority of the population is infected already and would need to be educated about this. The medical community would need to shift gears, normalize and encourage HSV testing, and provide standard instructions upon diagnosis. JMHO.

[Username]

@optimist, if I could give your response a standing ovation I would. Great answer.

 

I'd also like to add that it appears, @OregonH, your anger started when she left you. I get the impression that the risk she exposed you to was acceptable until she left you.

[OregonH]

You both have great points. We loved each other before she admitted exposing me. She told me the real truth, and I wanted nothing more than to forgive, but sometimes I feel like I can’t forgive her for having done that with where I sit today. It’s the most selfish hurtful thing someone has done to me. I don’t like to the it’s revenge, maybe it is. However it’s still not right to do to someone, and it makes everything she did seem like a lie. Part of me wants to protect others from her wrath of sorts

[OregonH]

I should also mention she had an outbreak, didn’t tell me, then told me later that she had one, after it was too late.

[annalove]

I’m really sorry you have had to go through this. It can be for many people a very emotional and traumatizing moment when you find out you are HSV+ (mostly because we have all been told herpes is one of the two STDs you definitely DO NOT want). I can only imagine how it feels to have had the choice taken away from you when you were getting tested for HSV and the partner you were with was deceptive. I don’t think any of us will judge you for being angry about this.

 

@optimist has as great point, as she often does : ) that doctors often do not give you any advice on how to proceed after disagnosis. Most HSV+ people are told they do not need to disclose to partners and that it is a personal choice you need to make for yourself. This could have been the case for your ex girlfriend.

 

I don’t know anything about this ex of yours but this forum is filled with posts from people ridden with guilt and confusion over not disclosing. I don’t know the statistics but I believe a lot of people who have herpes do not disclose. When you take into consideration type 1...it would be even higher. I think it’s possible, once you start disclosing yourself and feel how terrifying it can be, some empathy for this woman may grow. Doesn’t make what she did right, but it may help you to understand why she made that choice.

 

When it comes down to it people are just terrified of being judged. In my opinion, I think a heartfelt discussion with her about how deeply it hurt you that she chose the path of not disclosing would be more constructive than a lawsuit. Letting her know that if she had disclosed upfront you would have been accepting would encourage her to make that choice in the future.

 

Speaking solely for myself, I believe lawsuits perpetuate the stigma. Does anyone want it, no. Does it cause some people significantly physical pain, yes. But it’s not on the level of HIV where if you get this virus and aren’t on medication it will kill you.

 

I wish you the best of luck moving forward! My best advice is to continue to utilize this site and to listen to your gut moving forward once you start disclosing to people and forming relationships. It really can be an opportunity if you are open : )

[OregonH]

Thanks for the repose. Part of the problem is that she was and is very educated on the subject. She knew she had it genitally, knew the risks and everything about having sex with people who did not. She knew what the right thing to do was and was just fearful of rejection. In my opinion, and for me, I could never being the person I am take away that choice from another person. That is why I feel she needs to learn her lesson the hard way. So does society, that it is your duty as a carrier to be upfront and honest. I have suffered nerve damage and it will affect my job for my life. I may have to change jobs due to the side affects. This is not ok. People need to know that you can’t do this.

[OregonH]

My gut says this girl is malicious and selfish and these people should be punished in some form. The response of she has to live with it forever isn’t good enough, as she clearly does not feel anything more than s simple I’m sorry is good enough

[Username]

If you want to protect people from HSV educate them. Educate them so when a 19 year old girl contracts it she doesn't contemplate suicide. Or when it shows up out of nowhere in a monogamous relationship it doesn't blow up a marriage. Educate so that people like your ex feel perfectly comfortable telling their partners.

 

Most people tolerate HSV just fine. In fact most people don't have any symptoms. I know it has hit you kind of hard. I'm not sure how long you've had it but if it's relatively new to your body you're likely to see things get much better.

 

There is no doubt I'd be angry if I were in your shoes, but putting yourself through the chaos of a trial would probably take a bigger tole on you than it's worth. I really am sorry you're going through this.

[optimist]

@annalove I've seen studies on disclosure rates and they vary depending on circumstances. Of course, the biggest barrier to disclosure is that most people simply don't know they have it. In the case of HSV2, for every one person who knows they have it, there are seven people who unknowingly have it. More people with HSV1 are aware they have it, but expectation of disclosure falls mostly on those who have it genitally, even though it's more easily transmitted from an oral infection. Again, this is the stigma at work. Anyway, the studies are focused on disclosure of genital herpes (types 1 and 2) and a fair number (a majority) of people who know their status do disclose, but less often for casual encounters. Additionally, the studies indicate that most partners are accepting and that those who experience rejection are less likely to disclose in the future. But again, when we take the 80% who have HSV and the whittle it down to those who know they have it, and know they they have it genitally, it's only about 4%, so increasing disclosure from 3% to 4% does not address the remaining 76% who don't know their HSV status or don't feel they have a type/location combo that needs to be disclosed.

[annalove]

You haven't mentioned the specifics of whether you were being tested regularly for HSV. For the vast majority of us...there is some personal accountability that plays a role in us being positive. Most of us who find ourselves positive were not being tested. We can't pin being positive on one particular person (even if that person admits to knowing they are positive that still doesnt mean we got it from them). We also were not asking our partners specifically for HSV results before intimacy. If we asked about STD status at all...many of us also didn't ask to see anything in writing. We simply didnt ask or didn't take ALL the necessary precautions to protect ourselves.

 

Again not sure if any of this plays a role in your case. Sex is risky and while it REALLY sucks you had someone be deceptive...there is usually some personal accountability that must be had. In the end we could choose abstinence or choose to make all partners show us test results for HSV1 and 2 before engaging in even kissing, but we don't.

 

Human beings are not great at empathy. Its easier to be angry at this girl but I dont believe she was attempting to be malicious. She really liked you and you really liked her. She didnt want to lose you and as a result made a poor decision. As I said in my reply earlier, I think you would have greater success in her learning her lesson by speaking to her from a place of understanding and empathy.

 

[Redfaith417]

Oregon... I am so with you.  I think the lawsuit would give herpes the attention it deserves and people should be punished for knowing better and not disclosing. Were punished for changing people's lives for the worst in other ways... it would be unfortunate and maybe unfairly heavy for her in the context that most ppl skate by without accountability and that's what everyone is arguing for.. I can't believe they feel sorry for these selfish WIMPS... but the case would maybe get the ball rolling on implementing adequate education, prevention, and after care. This herpes culture we're perpetuating is bullsheet.

[Redfaith417]

 Talking to her will not get you or the herpes world anywhere... don't people get that? 

[Redfaith417]

Ppl get angry and make poor choices and kill people.. as highly sexual beings,  for reproduction and intimacy,  hurting someone sexually should be one of the highest crimes. 

[KRS17]

This is an important, and yes, polarizing post.  Without taking sides, could anyone enlighten on the law?  My (limited) understanding of the law looks for intent in a criminal case.  Am I correct?  Would OregonH, have to, if he chose to, prove intent of a malicious act or something akin to negligence to make a lawsuit move forward?  I'm not saying either is right or wrong right now...I am just curious if there is a criminal culpability that could stand up in court here?

[Disgusted]

I can't believe people are sticking up for this woman. People are so desperate for herpes to be normalized that they will defend anything. it's sickening. 

[My_dog_is_hungry]

I don't know about criminality, but I know people have been sued for assault.

[AW123]

My ex knew he had hsv2, we discussed Sexual health before sex and he lied and said he was clear. When I contracted the virus he basically said well we are together and you wont leave me now as no one will want you so it doesnt matter. 

I am in the UK so no option to sue or look at criminal charges but if there was I would do it without a doubt. This virus has changed my life, people should be held accountable