NEGATIVE MALE WITH HSV2 POSITIVE FEMALE. QUESTIONS.

Hi! I'm new to this site and fairly new to herpes in general. I've been coming to this site for a while now and just reading the forum which has been extremely helpful. I think having something like this is such an amazing resource compared to everything else I've found online. i really respect people like WCSDancer2010 and Adrial and everyone else who frequently answers the questions and gives support. I decided to go ahead and make a profile to ask some questions for my own clarity. Responses would be much appreciated..

The start of all this for me was when my girlfriend of about two months at the time, broke down and tells me she has HSV2 and was diagnosed 2 years ago. I have to say that the delivery was really scary because she was crying and it was just really dramatic. We had been having sex.. and to be honest it was a lot of sex. There was no condom use(birth control) but she takes valtrex daily. She said she hadn't told me because she was too scared and was still dealing with it herself. She had been pushing it out of her mind for a while but being with me I suppose forced her to come to terms with it. Anyway my reaction wasn't perfect. I didn't get up and run or anything. I just told her that I understood why she didn't want to tell me although I wasn't stoked that I was put in the situation of not having a choice when she already knew. At that point I knew nothing about herpes other than what most people know.. the media's portrayal, the jokes, that it's for life, etc. So naturally I was really frightened that I could have it. I went and got tested and it came back negative for both types. Our sex life had taken a hit because before I began to learn more about herpes I was clearly worried and she could tell no matter how many times I said it didn't bother me. Which made things worse for her. I began to prove to her that it wasn't an issue for me but that I wanted to start using condoms and I would prefer it that she stayed on the med(Obviously it is her choice). We began having sex again although it's not the same as it was before but things are getting better. Fast forward to now, We have been together for about five months I have taken more recent tests (HSV IgG) and they are still negative, but now she has recently seen a doctor who told her since she has only had one outbreak she might want to consider not taking the meds. After this she began getting upset of my wanting to use a condom. Her reasoning.. "There is such a small risk that you could get it from me but you still want to take every precaution, that makes me feel like I'm dirty or something". I understood that so we began to not use condoms again. Now I'm feeling that i want to use condoms for sure. I understand that framing things like "precaution" and "risk" and so forth isn't comforting but i feel that if she loves me like i love her she wouldn't mind. But i guess all this is just extra interpersonal relationship rambling that is irrelevant to actual questions(maybe it's relevant so I'm typing it) so here are my questions..

1.) If someone has only had one outbreak their entire lives does that person shed less and have less of a chance of transmitting it?

2.) Are the stats in the handouts truly believable? They are based on the valtrex study? which was admitted to be slightly skewed by using discordant couples who had already been together of a median of two years. So can we really continue using those as accurate percentages of transmission?

3.) What dictates the speed or time needed for a person to develop antibodies to herpes?

4.)Does pubic hair help reduce transmission?

5.)Is there an accurate percentage of couples who never share the infection? (My parents are discordant, my father has herpes btw.. but he doesn't know much about it)

6.)Is it true that viral shedding never decreases with time?

7.)what is the chance of me developing herpes but not noticing? I have read that most show no symptoms and i have also read that actually most do display symptoms but they are so mild they go unrecognized, and I have also read that if the partner with herpes is taking valtrex then it is possible for the person without herpes to more likely become infected with no symptoms if infection occurs.

8.) I've really been comforted by the discordant couples stories and was wondering if there was a place i haven't already found to read more. I think those by far have given me the most hope.

9.) My girlfriend is generally afraid to talk about herpes with me unless I pretty much completely confront her with it which never goes well. How can I find a way to make her more comfortable to talk about it with me. I've tried to get her on the net and other sites but she thinks people that would post things about herpes are idk... not like her??

10.) Do some people shed less in general? If so what would dictate that? Do some people never pass it regardless of using precautions simply because their viral load is that low?

Herpes wouldn't be the end of the world for me and shouldn't be for anyone but I don't fault myself for wanting to know more and wanting to protect myself. I honestly see myself wanting to be with this girl for a very long time if not for the rest of my life so I've already made the decision to take the "risk". I suppose I just want to know more and have those specific questions answered because my doctor doesn't know much about it which I'm sure most people with herpes have experienced.

I'm sorry for this lengthy post which I am sure is full of bad grammar and run on sentences. If anyone takes the time to read it and answer i really appreciate you.

Also if anything I wrote was offensive or sounds ignorant I apologize ahead of time.

THANK YOU

Hi cyclist,

First of all, I highly doubt anyone here would judge you as offensive or ignorant. On the contrary, I think you have a very sound and reasonable approach to it all. Especially if I read your screen name correctly, and you are only 23 years old. You sound quite mature for that age.

Great of you to still accept your girl, despite she waiting to disclose after you guys rumbled around. To many that is a free "get out of jail card" allowing you to flee with no questions asked. It shows that you really care for this girl. I can see how she felt it wasn't that big of a deal as she has only had one ob, but most of us on this forum are of the opinion that an infected person still should tell his/her partner to give them that option we all would have loved to be given when we contracted H. It's a big step in building a trusting relationship between two people who may not know each other very well. She probably like(d) you so much that she was afraid you'd run away.

I will leave it to someone else to answer all of your questions, I just wanted to give you a guys' perspective on your situation in general. You sound like a good guy and I hope your girl realizes and values that. Thanks for being so open minded about H.

@cyclist92

Wow! You are one smart, patient and thorough young man! I am going to leave the medical questions to @WCSDancer2010 since I am not nearly as informed on those topics! But I will say this...... I have had herpes for over 15 years and have had relationships with both H+ and H- men. Disclosures are always really hard and really scary and as much as I don't condone what she did AT ALL, I do understand how she felt and why she was afraid to tell you. THAT SAID, I am concerned with her attitude and approach to this, it is worrisome to me. (on your behalf). Combining all the issues of her having sex with you unprotected multiple times without disclosing, her not wanting to talk more in detail about herpes, her not wanting to get educated and connect with others who can help and her not willing to continue the medication and condom use to protect YOU sends up a lot of red flags that concern me. Regardless of the risk however small or large that may be, she should respect you and love you enough to do whatever it took to keep you as safe as possible. If you were the one who didn't want to use a condom or have her take the meds, that would be a completely different story. There is no argument or justification for her to stop the meds or stop using condoms as long as YOU request it.

As a woman with herpes and a boyfriend without herpes, I believe it is MY duty to keep my man safe (I can't guarantee he won't get herpes from me but I can damn well do EVERYTHING in my power to prevent it). Unfortunately your GF has continually put you at risk and is acting very selfishly and immaturely on all levels. This isn't all about HER! It's actually about YOU and whether she loves and respects you enough. Everything you have done and said have been supportive and natural things to do and say. The questions and desire for info and the desire to protect yourself is YOUR RIGHT and should not be taken as a rejection of her or that she is "dirty". It sounds like you have a great head on your shoulders and you are a compassionate man...... go with your instincts and really try to get to the bottom of this with her. Look long and hard at the relationship, do what is right for you. It sounds to me like herpes might be illuminating some important character traits in your GF that are not very redeeming and maybe, just maybe herpes is your wingman in this situation. It has a tendency to teach us things about ourselves and others. I for one would never dream of not taking my meds and using a condom if it made my boyfriend feel better and more at ease and knowing that it is lowering the risk of transmission substantially, its a no brainer. Try talking to her and being honest about your feelings and position on everything you have said here. Hopefully she will understand you better and come around. If she doesn't, I would rethink this relationship.

It's late and I really need to get to bed but I will try to answer your questions quickly. But first, regarding what @fitgirl said ... I get where she's coming from but my take on it is that your GF sounds like she has bought so totally into the stigma that she is needing "validation" that you don't care about getting it to 'prove" to her that she's lovable... OR ... she secretly hopes you will get it so that you will be more likely to stay with her (which still tells me she has some really deep insecurities). The fact that she didn't tell you for so long pretty much shows how scared she is of rejection.... so my answers on the relationship side of things will be with that in mind.

 

1.) If someone has only had one outbreak their entire lives does that person shed less and have less of a chance of transmitting it?

 

Well, there aren't any studies on this but logic tells me that they would shed less HEAVILY because an OB is simply shedding on steroids....and many pass H on right before an OB when they are likely shedding pretty heavily at that point ...

 

2.) Are the stats in the handouts truly believable? They are based on the valtrex study? which was admitted to be slightly skewed by using discordant couples who had already been together of a median of two years. So can we really continue using those as accurate percentages of transmission?

 

The stats are all we have to go on and are based (I believe) on the valtrex study. I would say that it's not so much that the couples were TOGETHER for 2 yrs but that the H+ person was already well into their time with H so that their body has already got some grip on it.... I would say that the only time I would question the stats is for the more recently diagnosed whose bodies have not built up some immunity ... and those people also don't know their prodromes. So given your GF has had it awhile, I'd say the stats are relevant enough for your situation

 

3.) What dictates the speed or time needed for a person to develop antibodies to herpes?

 

What doesn't? Age. Health status. Immune function. Stress levels. Hormones. The "dose" of how much virus they got in the first place (A higher initial viral load would likely take longer for the person's body to catch up to than someone who just got a smaller dose that was "just enough" for it to take hold). *Possibly* how much the person was already exposed to H (ie, if you are with someone who has H for awhile, odds are you are getting exposed to small "doses" of the virus all along and thus may already have *some* antibodies to it - just as people who get exposed to other germs get some resistance to them - so your body *might* have a small head start on developing antibodies if my logic is right) oh - and possibly your genetics ... given that some people have full natural immunity to HIV, who knows what other great things genetics may do to help us fight certain organisms.

 

4.)Does pubic hair help reduce transmission?

 

There are some schools of thought that it would ... and I think the biggest argument for it is that not only does is create a "buffer", but you are not causing micro-tears/cuts on the skin (which occurs with shaving). So unless you had an infected/ingrown hair, you would have fewer "portals" for the virus to get in

 

5.)Is there an accurate percentage of couples who never share the infection? (My parents are discordant, my father has herpes btw.. but he doesn't know much about it)

 

Not that I know of. Don't know how they could get a really accurate number on this given how many people have no idea that they have it. I had a client who had it 30 yrs before her first OB and her husband has never got it from her.

 

6.)Is it true that viral shedding never decreases with time?

 

Never heard that it "never decreases with time" ... nor that it stays the same... but I WILL say that OB's reduce over time for most .... they certainly have for me ... and thus it is likely that I am not shedding as much now as when I was having OB's on a really regular basis

 

7.)what is the chance of me developing herpes but not noticing? I have read that most show no symptoms and i have also read that actually most do display symptoms but they are so mild they go unrecognized, and I have also read that if the partner with herpes is taking valtrex then it is possible for the person without herpes to more likely become infected with no symptoms if infection occurs.

 

80% of people who have H don't know they have it so I'd say your odds are 80% ... as for the thing about the partner taking valtrex causing the discordant partner to not have symptoms? Uh - dunno where you heard that one ... but then again, it fits my theory that if you got a *small* viral load to start with, your body might get the upper hand faster... but again, that's only *my* logic here

 

8.) I've really been comforted by the discordant couples stories and was wondering if there was a place i haven't already found to read more. I think those by far have given me the most hope.

 

I don't know of any one place where discordant couples go to tell their stories .... or any studies ... sorry

 

9.) My girlfriend is generally afraid to talk about herpes with me unless I pretty much completely confront her with it which never goes well. How can I find a way to make her more comfortable to talk about it with me. I've tried to get her on the net and other sites but she thinks people that would post things about herpes are idk... not like her??

 

My biggest suggestion is that you try to get into therapy with her ... or possibly better yet, do some coaching with @adrial ... simply because you BOTH likely need to learn how to communicate better about this. She certainly sounds like she could use some time talking with others with H ... I'm not sure that she totally understands the virus and I think she could use some support from people who ARE like her ;)

 

10.) Do some people shed less in general? If so what would dictate that? Do some people never pass it regardless of using precautions simply because their viral load is that low?

 

Again, look at question #3 .. there are sooo many variables ... and all those possible factors would apply to BOTH partners ;)

 

Hope that helps a bit .... I think the biggest thing is getting some outside support to help you to communicate better. You need to find a way for her to understand that you wanting to use precautions is simply a matter of you looking after your sexual health and it has NOTHING to do with her .. it doesn't mean you think she's dirty ... and IF she will do coaching/therapy that is your best bet .... because she needs to build HER self confidence or odds are she will always feel insecure ... and that's a tough one to live with because anything that trips that insecurity will cause her to believe that she's not lovable for WHATEVER reason ....

(((HUGS)))

Hi guys. @Ihaveittoo1975 @fitgirl @WCSDancer2010

Thanks for all the responses. They have been extremely helpful you have no idea.

I think counseling is a very good idea. There is only so much i can tell her and she does need someone outside of the situation. I guess a larger part of her story that will explain things is missing... when she was diagnosed it was a situation where she didn't know she had it and gave it to someone else unknowingly. But to add to that there were rumors going around about her purposefully spreading it, in a semi-large close knit community that she was in. I imagine most people get diagnosed and it's a somewhat personal thing. Or at least between two people. So getting diagnosed and then everyone else you are kind of acquainted with and tons of other people you don't even know are right there with you. Talking about you. You don't know who knows and who doesn't and what they may already think about you before they know you. It seems pretty traumatic especially at a young age. At least it's really affected her. She felt like she couldn't leave the place she lived, ya know, go out of the house, out of fear.

At this point we rarely do have sex.. which really isn't a big deal. I'm not in this to simply have sex. But every time sex is proposed by myself or sometimes her, i bring condoms into the conversation. That's when things go haywire because she thinks I'm afraid of her or getting herpes or whatever. Like @WCSDancer2010 said anything will trip her insecurity and condoms do just that. So we have not used them a few times since her disclosing and I understand that it increases my chances or whatever but what upsets me is that condoms are viewed in a negative way or that I feel guilty for wanting to use one. The real issue is probably that she simply hasn't come to terms with it herself and can't understand that i accept her (like you stated). I know that you guys have already addressed this and thank you. Just thought i would give an update. I'm slowly talking her into some kind of therapy and even telling her secondhand the things that are said on here helps. Sometimes she says things along the lines of wishing she just knew who had it and didn't.. as in that would be an easier way to find someone else to date. She is only saying that i believe because she's upset.. obviously we love each other or why would we both be working this hard to keep it together.

Out of curiosity does anyone on here.. females or males.. just not use condoms and things have been fine? As in no transmission to a partner without. I feel guilty even asking this. I know I shouldn't though. It's like the fact that I'm not actively trying to get it or that I'm avoiding getting it if possible makes me feel guilty. idk.

The responses are truly helpful in my attempt to understand what she is going through.

Anyone who takes time out of there day to do this kind of stuff and answer questions or be here for people you never even see face to face has got to be a good person. So hats off to all of you guys.

Thank you so much.

@cyclist92 you have done a stellar job of being a supportive and loving partner and you deserve the same in return. I don't disagree with @dancer regarding the shame and stigma and the need for counseling. Hopefully your GF can get past the feelings she has associated with herpes but I am curious if you were to take herpes out of the equation, would she still have other insecurities? The reason I ask is because it sounds like there are deeper seeded issues at play here. Herpes tends to magnify pre existing issues rather than be the sole CAUSE of them.

Your desire to protect yourself is natural and normal and 100% OK, what is NOT ok is how she is reacting to your request for a condom and suppressive meds. You should feel ZERO guilt about wanting to wear a condom and it saddens me to hear that you are feeling badly about that. I can empathize with your GF and the feelings she is having but I'm sorry, I cannot, under any circumstance support her position on this. You are worthy of protection and the fact that you are having sex with her without a condom to make HER feel better seems like you are putting HER feelings ahead of YOURS. If you were asking about the risk of transmission without a condom because YOU didn't want to wear one, this would be a very different conversation. That is not the case here. Yes there is risk and yes it can happen. If you don't want herpes (and who does) you should follow your gut and be protected, that is your right and if she loves you as much as you love her she will see this from your point of view not just hers. Shame and fear and stigma are real but they aren't a free pass to absolve us of our responsibility to protect the ones we love as much as we can.

A relationship with this kind of power struggle over something as intimate and important as sex won't end well no matter how much you love her. I don't mean to be a negative Nelly here.... I am just trying to help you see that you are a good man and a good person and you need to be sure you are being true to yourself and honest with her. That is the only way you will work through this and have a happy and healthy relationship.

@fitgirl

I agree. Thank you. I'm going to make both the meds and condoms a necessity for sex to happen. I have to respect myself at some point. Haha. Well i hope transmission hasn't already happened but I guess I'll know eventually. Can't tell you enough how helpful this has been.

@cyclist92 so glad to hear that!! I wish you all the best :)

And.....you likely don't have herpes but even if you do get it, its not the worst thing in the world (even though some people feel like it is). Once you get a handle on the symptoms, it's all a state of mind... I have had it for many, many years and have a happy and full life with an amazing H- man. I hope to never give it to him but if I do, we will be in it together without judgment. Regardless of what happens in your current relationship, keep being the amazing person you are.

I have been in 2 three year relationships and didn't use condoms for either once we were declared monogamous... and only used the meds in one (as the other guy didn't want me to take them) Neither got it from me. And my ex hubby likely only got it because we didn't know what my weird rash was and we kept having sex anyway :p .. and I have a client who supposedly had it for 30 yrs (married that long with no signs till 2 yrs ago) before her first OB and her hubby never got it from her.

That said, I'll tell you what I tell any man who is dating a woman who is of child bearing years. I don't care if she's on birth control... if you don't want to be a baby-daddy, wrap it before you tap it. Period. My daughter got pregnant on birth control to a guy who turned out to be a drug addict ... and while he's cleaned himself up and my granddaughter is a beautiful blessing, it certainly did link the two of them for the next 18 years even though they have since split.... so perhaps THAT is a way to discuss condoms with her... ;)

I am having the opposite problem. I have had herpes (not sure of the strain) for 39yrs. I have been in 3 long term relationships 5yrs, 19yrs, and 9yrs. NONE of these partners contracted herpes (maybe they were asymptomatic). I refrain from sex once I recognize my warning signs that an OB is about to happen and of course, not during an OB. I have one small lesion on my tail bone area. I rarely have outbreaks now. My new bf was told from the gitgo that I have herpes but was not having an outbreak. He chose to have unprotected sex. Well, now, he is concerned, thinking I could be shedding and putting him at risk even without an OB. I have tried to put him at ease saying I would refrain from sex during an OB and don't mind condoms but I think he is wanting us to have a more no intercourse kind of sex life. Not sure, I can deal with that. How can I reassure him that his chances of ''catching this incurable disease" are slim to none? I even had 2 normal childbirths without issues. Is there a test to see if I am shedding when I am not having an OB?

@doglady

Hello and Welcome!

Hmmm - so he's gone to Dr Google and got scared. And no, there's no way to tell if you are shedding ... 😞

Try giving him the handouts and the link below ... so he can see that his risk is 5% or less (are you on antivirals? If not, that may put his mind to rest)... and show him my blog on the reality of risk and "life" 🙂

And if he walks away, well, perhaps he was more interested in getting INTO you than getting into YOU 😉

(((HUGS)))

http://supporttruthanddialog.com/driving-yourself-crazy/

Handouts + disclosure e-book:

https://www.herpesopportunity.com/lp/ebook

Herpes facts video

thank you, I will share this with him. I usually only take the antivirals when i have an OB which is rare, like once a year at most. Luckily, where I live I can get it without a prescription, so I can take it on a regular basis if that makes him feel better.

I've had it 35 yrs and like you have it pretty well under control ... but I usually take the antivirals for the first year just to help ease the transition for a new partner ... then revisit whether I should stay on them or not ...

Just to provide some reassure, I have a friend that was married to a woman w herpes for 7yrs and he never got it. I also have other friends who have had it a decade or longer and have not passed it to any partners all these years

Any suggestions for helping a guy accept my hsv2? He has hsv1 orally and cant seem to accept that this is essentially the same virus, different location. He has been told he could transmit hsv1 to me thru oral sex. It has been 3 months since I have told him, we text almost every day and keeps saying he misses me but is still scared. I know everyone has a different time frame of accepting this news but 3 mos is bordering on ridiculous to me. anybody's thoughts or suggestions on him having hsv1 and me having hsv2.

@smile33389

Honey, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink... you can give a guy facts but you can't make him think :)

Perhaps you can ask him to go on antivirals for you so that you won't have to worry about getting his HSV1 ... and when he asks why you are scared, say that you aren't ... and you trust him YOU are ready to take a risk with HIM, and you'd appreciate it if he would feel the same....

AND

perhaps he's not sure if he's *that* into you that he's willing to take the risk ... in which case, you need to figure out how long you are willing to give him time to figure that out. Generally, if a man is crazy about you, *most* won't care over time. Some take a little longer because they both don't understand how the virus works and they are "junk obsessed" and are worried about ANYTHING that might hurt/scar/disfigure that area of their bodies. It doesn't mean they won't get over it ... but they may need more time.

So in the end, YOU have to figure out how long YOU are willing to wait, let him know that, and if he just can't get over it, it's nothing personal to do with you... it's about him, his fears, and perhaps his inability to just jump in and commit to the relationship. We all have our "stuff" and our deal breakers. And that doesn't mean anything is bad about the other person ... it's OUR limitations (personal/emotional/physical/whatever) and this may just be something he can't get beyond.

So have a talk with him, but first, have a talk with YOURSELF... be honest with where you are and what you will tolerate as far as how long you will wait.. then stick to it. Sometimes, taking the cookie away is enough to make the other wake up and realize what they may lose so that they can break through their own barriers to commitment/relationship. :)

(((HUGS)))

This may help him to realize the relative risk in relationship to other life risks

http://supporttruthanddialog.com/driving-yourself-crazy/

I've had herpies for 30 plus years and been married 20 and my husband does not have it. We do use condoms every time we have intercorse. I just started anti viral just to try to get my 5 or 6 ob's per year down to zero. We do have oral sex more often these days than intercorse. Nonetheless, we have had some seriously raw sex many, many times in 20 yrs and he does not have it. Now, he has never been tested either. He is on chemo now for the past three years meaning his immune system is quite compromised and he still does not have it!!!