a question for men with herpes

Hi,

I have been on the forum for a week now (since I was diagnosed). I make it a point to read a few posts everyday and it has helped tremendously.

It seems that a lot of underlying feelings associated with herpes are similar across gender, but I wonder if there are any differences in how men and women deal with it. I am particularly curious about the experience of men dealing with herpes. How has it changed the way you approach dating and sex? I am still grappling with the early stages of dealing with this, so I would love to hear and learn from your experiences.

I have found that for me, having herpes has given me insight into why waiting to have sex is a good thing ... it tends to increase the connection, passion and intimacy in my experience. I had always been one to want to rush into sex. Now with herpes naturally slowing that process down, it has really given me epiphany after epiphany as to why waiting to jump into bed is quite an awesome thing. It's what women have always known and guys are slow to catch up on as far as I've seen. :)

What has been your experience, Equanimous? How has it changed the way you approach dating and sex?

Hi Adrial,

I was on the same boat that you were on earlier..of wanting to jump into sex quickly. Right now its still early days so I am not sure where I stand. I think I am in the process of falling off the earlier boat..into the water for a while..till I swim to the next one.

But I do notice small changes... while I still flirt and do the things I used to..I catch myself thinking.." this is not going to go anywhere"..I now hold no hopes of rare random (at times beautiful, mostly mediocre) sex. And I am yet to get to a point of accepting/(making my peace) with that and moving on. I mean whenever I went out as a single guy there was always that vague and often unrealistic hope in the back of my head of meeting someone, hitting it off and having sex. I don't have that anymore. And I feel like that's a huge loss..(what's going to drive me to spend money on alcohol now!? :P). Did you experience anything similar?

Its still too early to start thinking of dating yet..so I am not sure. I had to cancel previous dates and I am taking a break to figure things out for myself before I jump back in. But that's a more looming ominous cloud! (love, dating relationship...ugh!)

I guess I know where I need to be, but its just a matter of gathering enough momentum to get there.

Where are all the men on this forum?

Yep, unfortunately you have lost the spontaneous and shallow easy availability of a quick hookup without having a deeper conversation. :) And you know what? That's been a great thing for me, bro. Seriously. People somehow forget that there's just as much risk going both ways when we have sex with someone else, especially when that someone else is someone we don't know very well yet. Having the disclosure conversation at the very least opens up the conversation in general about if THEY have anything that I'd rather not tack on to my STD acquisition list. ;)

And yes, that kind of sex does tend to be quite on the mediocre side. ;) Because there's no ACTUAL connection in a deeper way. It's just 2 bodies bangin' on each other. Might as well be masturbating, right? So yes, superficial sex is out the window when we get herpes. You're just going to have to at least be connected on an emotional level before you have sex with someone from here on out. And I think that's what sex is all about anyway. Emotional connection blossoming into a physical expression of that. And hey, don't get me wrong — sex from here on out doesn't have to be with someone you're falling deeply, madly in love with; but at the very least, you will be connected as human beings instead of simply sex objects. At first this seemed to be a dead end for me when I first got herpes (I was quite superficial when it came to dating and relating), but it ended up being an absolute godsend for me. I don't know how it'll be for you, but be open to this being an awesome shift in how you approach sex and connection with women. It brought me deeper into myself and from that place I am able to connect more deeply in sex, too.

P.S. To the question about where all the men are, I think the reason is 2-fold:

1. Roughly 20% of women have herpes while about 10% of men do. There's going to be at least 2x more women coming to this forum based on that stat alone.

2. When men have a "problem," they tend to withdraw and try to take care of it alone. It's been seen for a while in our western culture that a man asking for help is a weak man (when really a man asking for help shows tremendous strength and courage). Our culture is starting to shift, with the spread of men's groups and men's culture, but men are still on a whole more inhibited about talking about feelings and emotions. I do see that shifting, though ...

Those are my theories, at least. :)

oh but I was talking more about the beautiful one-time interactions where there is magic and you click with someone... long-nights, deep conversations followed by passionate hook-ups ( a la Before Sunrise...)...It happens rarely but I am a sucker for unexpected romance.. the kind that occurs without the deliberation that seems to be a hallmark of the herpes induced dating that I must now pursue. Natural, beautiful and ephemeral.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it seems herpes will now weigh in on every dating decision. A club wielding orangutan that smacks spontaneous romance each time it rears its head...Jumping up and down yelling "You have herpes!".

And you are right about having to be open about a shift in how I approach dating. I know where I have to be..its just that path is not clear. The day to day. Someone needs to cage that monkey. Which I guess will happen when I am confident and in a state of acceptance (and self-love).

P.S: You are on the money about Western men. I've been in the States for 3 years now and boy do they have a problem with intimacy. Its unfortunate..

I'm enjoying your sense of humor around all of this along with your thoughtfulness and the way you put your experience into words. Definitely gives me quite the visual of the Orangutan with a big H on his chest. Sexy.

And at first blush based on the interaction you're describing, I don't see that as being off the menu for you, bro. Are you talking about a one-night stand with having sex or an intimate hookup? I don't see herpes and "beautiful one-time interactions where there is magic and you click with someone along with passionate up-til-sunrise hookups" being mutually exclusive. It's only the sex that you will have a boundary around. Everything else other than sex is totally (and beautifully) on the table. In my single days, I had high-integrity hook-ups where I set very clear boundaries so that we could safely play in some very sexy and sensual realms and have just as much fun (if not more fun) than caving into actual sex. This forces you to use your imagination. Expand your horizons about what hookups can be. And then if you feel that the connection is growing to such a degree that you want to talk about having sex, then you open up to her by having the herpes talk. But before you reach that point of wanting to connect on the deeper level that sex provides, herpes isn't the important conversation topic. What's more important is getting to know each other to see if this is something that the both of you want to pursue in a more intimate way.

P.S. Coincidentally, what you say about the day-to-day path not being so clear? I'm hard at work putting together a home study course that will do just that for all of you. I'll be launching it in January 2014, so stay tuned for that! I'm super excited about it! Here's a link to get on the earlybird list: http://bit.ly/12jBAjH

Equanimous, I know exactly how you feel. You feel like the old life is gone forever. And in a way it is. But when I look back my drunk/random sex life wasnt all that good. I had 2 decent relationships and beyond that it was empty. WHile Im still on a dry spell when it comes to sex. I've come to the terms that the next woman I have sex with will know my deepest secret that I hold close. I have high hopes for this because once a woman is comfortable with you she lets herself be free in everything. And one of the easiest ways to get her to be comfortable is to let your guard down and let her into your life. Keep your head up and reach out to me if you have any question or just need someone to chat with.

Thanks for reaching out NS!

I agree that sex is more meaningful when there is a deeper connection, I have always felt that. But I am not going to lie. I love sex, and the intimacy that it brings even when fleeting. Its never been meaningless or not beautiful (apart from a few occasions). And I am a sexual human being living in a largish city and it definitely would hurt when I go out and my friends go crazy while I stand in a corner by the bar sipping on a sad martini avoiding all eye contact.

So I am not sure how I am going to deal with the sudden absence of sex.

Anyways, enough of the crappy rant. I know that its not the end of the world and that things will get better. But it sucks right now that's all.

Thanks again for reaching out. It means a lot to me.

It seems like you're still seeing this as quite a black and white thing. Either you're going all out with full on awesome partytime sex or sitting sad and alone in the corner. ;) Where's all that room in between the two extremes? That, my friend, is the question. And that is your playground.

hahahah.... I know. Its just early days. And I know you are right about everything. I just need to get through this initial shock to the system...to the way I approached these things. I promise I will find that huge soccer field that lies in between and do a few fancy dribbles....soon! Thanks Adrial!

thank you for being a brave man and sharing. I am too new to this and that huge monkey was quite the appropriate word picture. Its like your libido just crashes.

Thread revival here...

I'm new to the group and I must say I have the same exact feelings @Equanimous has mentioned, and I had the same attitude @Adrial explained about his past. Not to say I'm superficial, as when presented the right person, there is more to it than looks. However, in this one life we get, I like to experience the excitement of having sex with someone attractive. Many find that exhilarating and exciting, even if they have to ultimately let it go for a true life partner, and even if just for the sake of scratching that off a bucket list.

"sex from here on out doesn't have to be with someone you're falling deeply, madly in love with; but at the very least, you will be connected as human beings instead of simply sex objects."

From my pre-herpes experience, some of the female friends I have are people I've hooked up with in the past, and we share a genuine friendship bond.

Of course, it was only a fling, and we both recognize it, yet we appreciate each other's friendship. She may not be a life partner, but the presence of that person marked a wonderful memory of a good time we had. Isn't life worth living for those good times?

I wish I knew how to replicate this under these new circumstances...

I'm living the young entrepreneurial life which makes it really hard to buckle down with someone. Too many financial risks and lots of moving around renders compromises between two people rather impractical for the road. I've had occasions where I've met amazing people that I know I will not be able to settle down with, but we develop a connection. It's not deep enough to "love in sickness and in health", but it's strong enough to develop an authentic caring for the other person (except with the one that gave me herpes, I suppose). During those moments we hook up, smile, hug, and move on with our lives knowing that there is/was something there.

For me, that helped me feel attractive and confident, as well as satiate that feeling of lust we humans experience. I feel like now I'm left to chastity and masturbation as the replacement of such dreams.

I might just be blind-sighted due to recent diagnosis, but it seems to me like my only practical options are:

- Meet someone HSV2+ (living in a tiny island might make this difficult).

- Disclose and hope for (an estimated minuscule chance of) acceptance.

Although I appreciate that I am now able to see hot women more as people, rather than an enticing sexual desire, I feel that sex will no longer be a romantic escapade, and instead it will be a regulated activity like plants and most animals do.

I know we are all masters of our own reality, but does my reasoning seem coherent within yours?

Am I making any sense?

Just want to point out .. your idea of minuscule acceptance is skewed... understandably because you are new to this. But we have a whole lotta success stories on here with discordant couples(Including one of a loving one night stand) .. and I've had 2 post divorce relationships with H- buys.

Sorry to hijack the thread but I really wanted to stop that thought in the bud @Kilogold ... You talk about being a master of your reality...change that thought process around dating my friend or you WILL get that reality :)

hey fellas, I know you are male bonding here.... but from a female perspective I want to share something . I love boys (not in that way) and I love men (in that way) . I have a 7 year old son whom I talk to openly about anything and everything I feel he is able to understand at his age. I have always related to men and I feel like you guys get the shaft (pardon the pun). chicks talk (often too much), they share, they cry, they whine and they express. men don't always have that opportunity....guys don't talk to other guys about intimate things typically and they are criticized for being weak if they cry. who are you suppose to talk to if you can't talk to women for fear of being judged for being weak and you cant talk to other men for fear of being put down for showing emotion? its bullshit. it is so hard to be a man in this world when women want you but don't need you. you have to pretend that your heart doesn't break and you never cry..... and shit, now you cant even get some loving from a "hook up" . I am going to let you in on a little secret. smart and connected women will love you more now that you have to be honest and authentic....they will accept you and appreciate you in ways you cannot imagine. look at herpes as a great lesson that will help you make better choices and will lead to a woman that is everything you want and need. the hook up hot sex wears off fast, you are just skipping that step now and getting an opportunity to find a deeper and lasting relationship.

Totally understand @kilogold. I was not a super sexually active person before this. I just was one of those who didn't need it. My gratification came from making A's in college lol. Anyways, I feel the same. It's either find someone who has it, or make it like a process. Okay. Take pills, put on lube, wrap it up, okay, be easy at first, wait too rough, you might make me break out. Yeah, I get it. It's like a step by step process now and that open the door, making out all the way to the bedroom, ripping clothes off and just going at it is gone. It sucks. Idk, maybe we all still have a chance at that. Who knows anything? Life is a big roller coaster that just has it's ups and downs.

So true! Now if (a BIG if) I meet someone it will have to be at such a different level than before. Here's hoping for the best for everyone! Loves X ~ me

@WCSDancer2010, you are absolutely right.

You are definitely "Forum Mom" in the best possible sense.

I don't know at what point I am crossing the lines between eluding myself and creating an empowering perspective. Sometimes I ask myself if they are one in the same. I don't think it ultimately matters, as everyone's reality is subjective, but it makes me twitch.

I've known to influence people with my dominating perspective, and I suppose this is also helpful for disclosure acceptance.

Nevertheless, I used to ignorantly enjoy sexual freedom with people I became attracted to. It became a thing of "I like you, you like me, so why not?". Now I know why not. All of them are still friends, and we see each other from time to time. Hell, some of them are dating some of my awesome bros. We all see it as this awesome little fun we had a few times in the past.

From what I have gathered so far, these days are not over, but out of my control...? As in this is only bound to happen based on whether said partner accepts or not?

It might sound stubborn to hope for this to go on; I awkwardly admit that it was one of the things that made life interesting, and I mean romantic comedy Hollywood level interesting.

Sex and life is a risk as I've seen people here say. I've taken the risk, and induced the consequence of said risk. In the grand scheme of things, I should probably concur to fair game.

I recognize that there is more to life than (ironically, the creation of it) sex. I also recognize that there are younger people than me (I'm 24), going through this.

Ultimately, it kills me to think that this is the age when the human organism is best primed for sex, and how responsibly exploring this can hinder it.

@Kilogold

Well, perhaps the issue is changing the perspective of what most STD's are ... all but HIV can be lived with and/or cured... even the cancer-causing HPV (which is all but impossible to avoid...99% of cervical cancers are caused by HPV and the CDC says we will all get at least one strain in our lifetime) IS "curable" in that, with regular Pap smears, we can catch the abnormal cells early and deal with them long before they become cancerous. Hell, even HIV may be cured soon...

Now, what if we get that reality out there ... so that people understand that we take risks but at the same time we take as many precautions as we can to reduce said risk, and that just because the odds go against us sometimes doesn't make us "bad" people. ;)

IE: If we get in our car, we do certain things to reduce the risk of injury to ourselves and others. We get a license. We wear a seat belt. We buy a car with Airbags... some also have traction control/all-wheel drive/warning systems/etc. We maintain the tires and brakes. We obey traffic signals and laws. And hopefully we don't drive impaired. Now, in spite of all that, we might be in an accident some day. Does that automatically make us a bad driver???? NO. Often the other person was impaired/didn't maintain their vehicle/ran a light/etc. But WE live with the consequences, and some of those consequences are life changing. Do we beat ourselves up for getting in the accident? Probably not. Would our friends ride with us in future? Most likely. EVEN IF you were "that guy" who is known for not being the best driver, most people would stand by you and be there for you. So why are STD's any different? Because once someone has that "accident" (whether it's their fault or not) they go into a closet and don't come out, don't talk about it, and don't get support while they heal. Imagine if that happened after every car accident? :/

So, what if we can get the public to understand that sex and driving a car has a very similar risk of "injury" (which is true) and that it's all about being responsible with your body and with doing what you can to keep the risks for all involved to a minimum AND accepting that sometimes you just lose the crap shoot of life???? AND, it doesn't make you a bad person!

You see, if we all took responsibility for educating even ONE person... and asked them in turn to educate ONE person, what kind of change could we see? We could still have a world where "casual sex" might be possible with responsible pre-conversations (they don't have to be long...they DO have to be HONEST) about your status AND that everyone takes the precautions on both sides to ensure that you protect your partner and yourself from "injury".

People like yourself (who have a strong personality) can make a HUGE change to the world. We need people like yourself to find your way to make the change...however that works for you. I can tell you get it (or at least, you WILL soon... I know it's early days for you) that we don't have to allow the stigma that surrounds this condition to have the undeserved reputation that it has.

(((HUGS)))

(oh dear, I feel a blog coming on and I got too much to do today!)

This lady makes some very good points. Very good points indeed.

I love that this post has been revived!

Just as a follow up @Kilogold...

I agree with you that sex (even when outside a relationship) is meaningful and that things of beauty and meaning don't only exist within the context of a traditional relationship. I also agree with WSC that in the ideal world, people talk about STDs not through the lens of shame and stigma but that of risk (and how to reduce it). While we are still a long way off from this ideal world we can and should do our part by having honest conversations with people about herpes (and other STDs).

That said, three months on casual sex is still not on the cards for me. No sex period. I am still getting used to my new friend who has chosen to make himself quite at home in my beautiful body and sex is going to be hard until I become completely comfortable with the idea of disclosing...

The key for me in the meantime has been to accept the fact that things have changed and that I am in this for the long haul. Once I got past that point my frustration levels dropped.. in fact I am much less frustrated about sex today than I was in my pre-H days. I don't expect my current monk like state to last for ever cos' i am pretty certain that at some point Mr. Horny will feed Mr. Courage some spinach and push me over the disclosure cliff. But until then I plan to just accept that things will be a bit dry on the sex front for a while.

So hang in there my friend and may the monsoons arrive sooner than later and end this drought.

I try to tell myself at times that this will make me more ethereal and less primal! The old Catholic roots have returned. Having a contraceptive coil made me have unprotected sex without thinking about communing with the men I had flings with. It was very spontaneous, but the excitement was often short-lived and now I look back with shame.

I am glad that I want to be monogamous now, and I want to be respected. I caught H from someone who bullied and undermined me. I felt like I'd never be loved by anyone else, that I was unworthy. Having had a tough learning process, I am unlikely to need to go back to school again.

I am looking forward to slow foreplay, passion building up over time and getting to know someone slowly.

I know I have yet to bump into the man that gave me H ; that will happen, but it scares me. I have physically and mentally run away from the places where that's likely to happen. I am trying to be kind to my body, to even talk to it and stroke it! It's when I feel angry and obsessive about having H that the outbreak returns.

@rene

Never look back with shame (Damn Catholic roots!) - honor your past. It was what you needed THEN. Ask yourself what lessons you learned from each experience (hate to tell you but the school of live is never ending ;) )... because each one taught you something. Even the abusive relationship.

You now know what you want and, more importantly, what you DESERVE. That is a beautiful thing. And being kind to yourself and your body (including stroking it... why not?) is something many never learn.

So now you are in another learning experience (YUP - you ARE still in school...you've just moved on to another classroom). You KNOW that when you get "angry and obsessive" about H you get an outbreak. Imma guessing "angry and obsessive" may come up in other places in your life (I could be wrong, but humans seem to repeat patterns until we acknowledge and then change them ;) ) So it's there. It's an understandable reaction to something that is out of your control. BUT, it's not doing you any good now, is it? H is trying to tell you that some times, (most of the time, actually), you just have to accept what life has brought you (H or otherwise), adapt, and move on. Every day people everywhere have their world ricked and changed by something... accidents, illnesses, war, abuse, death of a loved one. It's all part of life.... AND...how you react to it, how you go through the process of acceptance (and it IS a process) is a choice. If you choose to stay in anger, it will eat you and weaken your immune system and tear at your soul. If you choose acceptance (and it's ok to be sad at times even IN your acceptance, as long as you don't cling to the sadness) then your body will be able to look after you. It's as simple as that ... (Note, I didn't say it's EASY ;) )

(((HUGS)))